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you

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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podcast episode number 408 for the 14th

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of August 2016 Richard Saunders here

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with you from Sydney Australia what a

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great day I had yesterday my friends

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what a fun day Maynard our reporter main

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heart and I took part in the mystery

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investigators science show life science

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show as part of super science Saturday

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here at the Australian Museum in Sydney

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we are played to audiences one at around

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midday 13 clock both packed houses it

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was great lots of kids their kids and

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adults and all sorts of people we did a

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demonstration of water divining we had

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the bed of nails as ever showed the

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power balance band and the tricks behind

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those talked about astrology and how

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wonderful the real science of astronomy

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is and fantastic time and we really love

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doing the mystery investigators show I

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think the water divining is the

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highlight that always gets a great

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reaction from the audience apart from

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apart from when Maynard stands on my

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back as i lie on a bed of nails and

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my house slowly and which is on this

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hi

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yeah there we go and then the kids

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always worried that I've damaged myself

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and when I get up and I reveal that I've

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got no puncture wounds there's great

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relief from the little kids it's a lot

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of fun but coming up on the next show

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next week's show I'll play some

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highlights from Maynard and I at the

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Museum and some other interviews with

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the scientific outreach people there on

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the day but that's next week because

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this week's episode is a quite full we

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must start with an interview with an old

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friend of mine an old friend of yours

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often of everybody susan goreck from

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guerrilla skepticism who has acted

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swiftly very swiftly on this story about

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cupping you've probably seen it heard

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about it it's been around the cursor

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members of the u.s. swim team in Rio

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have shown up with bigger bruises on

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their bodies from cupping bizarre quack

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alternative therapy technique Susan

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Kovac was very quick jumped on Wikipedia

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to edit the cupping page to reflect the

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truth of the issue we're going to be

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talking to her all about that then I'll

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read a piece written by a very own dr.

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Brad makhaya who is a wonderful example

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of a scientific outreach when it comes

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to medicine scientifically based

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medicine and he wrote a piece about

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cupping as well so we'll read that out

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following that it's a report from the

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Australian skeptics website about our

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friend dr. ken harvey who has recently

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awarded a very important scientific

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medal and an achievement and it's very

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good news ken is a tireless campaigner

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for science and reason in the medical

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realm chasing many a quack then it's our

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new reporter Shelley stockin with her

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segment cake stock now Shelley's been on

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the show before over the past few months

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talking about Freeman on the land and a

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few weeks before that she was talking

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about naturopaths we were so impressed

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she had such a good reaction from

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listeners that we invited her to be

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opponent part of the skeptic zone so

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welcome aboard surely stocking with take

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stock and today Shelly's going to be

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looking at demonic possession I think

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that that's true actually it happens to

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my cats every dinner time hmm the

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skeptic zone cats that possessed by

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something and they want their dinner I

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can tell you been to round off the show

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Heidi Robertson the raw skeptic with her

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reports from Brisbane skeptic camp and

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this will be ongoing for the next few

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weeks Heidi was there running around

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with her microphone grabbing all sorts

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of interviews from people going to skip

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the camp and on today's episode we're

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going to hear general audience reaction

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about skeptic camp lots of little

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interviews and then a longer interview

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with a an attendee called Curtis who

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works in an organic food store an

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interesting angle and interesting

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insight I think you'll find now a few

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extra notes before we get stuck into the

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show I hope you can join us if you're in

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Sydney at the Australian skeptics next

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dinner meeting which is sep tember the

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24th wisdom of the Ancients with Lynn

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Kelly wonderful Lynn Kelly author

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extraordinary and might say now she has

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written a book called the memory code

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all about how ancient civilizations and

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people all around the world used memory

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techniques in order to survive it's a

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very practical thing to do and it

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involves Stonehenge and all sorts of

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other things the book has been very well

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received making lots of waves around the

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world and you can meet Lynn Kelly and

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hear her talk at the next skeptics

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dinner meeting and you can buy tickets

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for that at skeptics calm I you and why

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you're at that website why don't you

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scroll down to the bottom of the page

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and sign up to receive the Australian

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skeptics newsletter regular newsletter

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keep up to date with skeptical events

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and also if you have a an item you think

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might be worthy of the newsletter drop

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the Australian skeptics a line and you

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can do that at skeptics calm got

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you as well and if that's not enough you

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can click the special features link at

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the top of the page scroll down to the

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bent spoon award have a look at that and

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if you're in Australia have a think who

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you would like to nominate for this

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year's bent spoon award and having a

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quick look at the page at the moment we

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see the current nominations for 2016 are

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the University of Wollongong the

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University who warded a PhD to an

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anti-vaccination activist also listed

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for this year in contention dr. Marian

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Damacy for the ABC catalyst program

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about the dangers and so-called dangers

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of Wi-Fi we got some nominations from

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the National Institute of complementary

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medicine I'm sure we can have some more

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so those people in Australia if you can

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think of somebody who who you think

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personifies a pseudo-scientific or

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paranormal piffle head to skeptics calm

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today you and submit your nomination

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well that's all from me at the moment

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I'm going to run downstairs now going to

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run out the door i'll run out the door

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today run into the car run into the car

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get into the car run to the car get into

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the car drive to a sushi train yeah you

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know when I was a little kid we just

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didn't have that sort of stuff we just

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didn't know it's no sushi there was no

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sushi train something going to run to

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the car drive to sushi train enjoy my

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favorite which i think is probably the

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salmon and avocado or the chicken and

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avocado and the pickled ginger oh great

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combination while I do that I hope you

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and joining me now from sunny California

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well I hope it's sunny anyway it's a

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Susan go back from guerrilla skepticism

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hello hi Mase a really nice to see you

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because we are seeing each other through

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the wonders of um what are we using this

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time it's not skype today it's oh it's

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messenger facebook Messenger oh that's

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awesome yeah what next I mean there's

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there's so many ways to do this you're

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looking well well thank you very much

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you're looking quite picky yourself oh

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yes it's a big love in here folks on the

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skeptic zone now Susan the reason i've

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had i've contacted you uh is this

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cupping story in the last few days

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because of the American swim team

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turning up to the pool in Rio covered in

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polka dots it's really taken off a lot

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of the media are suddenly interested in

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cupping and what I love is that you have

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jumped on this story very quickly in

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your work with Wikipedia take up the

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story from there and tell us what's

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happening what is happening is the

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sports reporters are reporting that

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cupping works our maybe it doesn't they

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don't really know what they're saying

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they're just talking about having to

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find out what it is that's these big red

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spots that are on the American swim team

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so somebody posted on Facebook an

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article about cutting and what's going

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on Michael Phelps appears to be the

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biggest draw and I said fine so let's go

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look at the wikipedia page because you

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know what's going to happen sports

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reporters are talking about it people

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were talking about it but people don't

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know what's going to happen they're

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going to go and they're going to have

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the google it so they're going to google

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it they're going to get the wikipedia

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page and what are they seeing and what

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they were singh the english wikipedia

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page was two sentences long it was

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talking about cutting and it had

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absolutely nothing to do with

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pseudoscience or talking about it not

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working or anything like that it was

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just basically this is what cuffing is

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so hmm I got a little upset yes and

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immediately within about a half an hour

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I had expanded the wikipedia page the

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lead that's the top part that's what

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most people read yeah and I had put

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Harriet hall Simon Singh Edward Ernst

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and Mark Crispin and quoted them and

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hyperlink to the Wikipedia pages and I

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said that they call it pseudoscience

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nonsense a celebrity fad gibberish and

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that there's no evidence that cupping

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works any better than a placebo and then

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I went and found an article by David

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Calhoun who wrote that cupping is

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laughable and utterly implausible and I

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added that to the Wikipedia lead and

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then i went to bed notified everybody on

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gso w that this is looks like it's going

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to be a thing and we need to start

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making sure that all the Wikipedia pages

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on cutting and all in which is that we

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can give you know are represented in

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good shape somebody overnight put a

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mention about the olympic team in the

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lead and i didn't want to take it out so

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i added a david gorski article and it

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says it's all risk for no benefit and

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has no place in modern medicine and then

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you gave me a link this morning to dr.

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brad mikhay from new zealand and

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australia yeah and i put him in this

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morning oh this afternoon and it says

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that the Olympians are doing a great

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disservice to their fans that may follow

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their lead he calls cupping an ancient

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but useless traditional therapy so the

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leave is one paragraph long it has all

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kinds of information and they're all of

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it pretty much saying it is nonsense

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pseudoscience and then so my team has

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been going through working on the

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wikipedia page in other places but what

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happened is it has become a frenzy of

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people editing the Wikipedia page and

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there are people reverting it i'm

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changing it and and i mean every few

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minutes we're having to revert it it

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looks like we've got about a half an

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hour now but nobody's referred by me you

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know

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just looking at it as we speak now on my

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big monitor the above the monitor I'm

272
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looking at you oh yes folks it's pretty

273
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technical here at the skeptics own

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headquarters and the current state of

275
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:20,850
the page on Wikipedia which I'll link to

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but nevertheless it's cupping therapy

277
00:13:27,950 --> 00:13:25,380
that's the name of the wikipedia page

278
00:13:29,660 --> 00:13:27,960
cupping therapy looks pretty good it

279
00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:29,670
looks pretty straight forward with the

280
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the citations that you mentioned is a

281
00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:34,290
lot of pictures appeared overnight I've

282
00:13:40,310 --> 00:13:37,380
noticed of various pictures of holding

283
00:13:41,930 --> 00:13:40,320
now look folks and disappeared and and

284
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:41,940
disappeared and reappeared and and just

285
00:13:48,170 --> 00:13:45,510
very quickly folks if you don't know in

286
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a nutshell cupping is the practice of

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00:13:55,010 --> 00:13:52,020
either using vacuum jars or just heating

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00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:55,020
jars of glass jars placing those on the

289
00:13:59,510 --> 00:13:56,850
back or other parts of the body

290
00:14:01,460 --> 00:13:59,520
presumably and letting the suction

291
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:01,470
drawer up the skin which can create

292
00:14:08,210 --> 00:14:03,570
bruises and other and other problems

293
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:08,220
that's about right and okay so one of

294
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:09,570
the things that we've been looking at

295
00:14:14,510 --> 00:14:12,330
because we are a team of editors that

296
00:14:16,190 --> 00:14:14,520
are all over the world is we're trying

297
00:14:17,810 --> 00:14:16,200
to make sure that the Wikipedia pages

298
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:17,820
and other languages are in great shape

299
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:20,160
and we've been going through them the

300
00:14:25,940 --> 00:14:23,370
Dutch page had no citations and it was

301
00:14:29,930 --> 00:14:25,950
just describing what cupping is so our

302
00:14:33,170 --> 00:14:29,940
editor Leon has written in the lead that

303
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:33,180
it's dangerous quackery and then our

304
00:14:40,070 --> 00:14:36,570
Chinese page it's very wolf filled it's

305
00:14:42,260 --> 00:14:40,080
definitely full of Wu and I have an

306
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:42,270
editor who is not a native chinese

307
00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:44,250
speaker so I really need some Chinese

308
00:14:48,770 --> 00:14:46,830
editors and he's doing what he can it's

309
00:14:51,470 --> 00:14:48,780
going to be an uphill battle to fight

310
00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:51,480
against that but definitely the Chinese

311
00:14:56,510 --> 00:14:52,830
page is a one that needs a lot of

312
00:14:59,120 --> 00:14:56,520
obviously support a Russian page we need

313
00:15:01,010 --> 00:14:59,130
more people editing on that person who's

314
00:15:03,290 --> 00:15:01,020
been trying to do it she's at work and

315
00:15:06,140 --> 00:15:03,300
can't get to it and she says the

316
00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:06,150
Wikipedia page is named medical jars

317
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:08,880
instead of cupping so that's kind of

318
00:15:14,270 --> 00:15:11,730
interesting our Portuguese page had

319
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:14,280
three citations that did mention Simon

320
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:17,250
Singh and Edward Ernst and called it

321
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:19,770
harmful pseudoscience so our editor

322
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:21,040
Valerio

323
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:23,290
has added a couple more citations amid a

324
00:15:30,210 --> 00:15:27,730
stronger page Spanish page is done by

325
00:15:32,430 --> 00:15:30,220
someone named walking it was in pretty

326
00:15:34,499 --> 00:15:32,440
good shape it had three citations now

327
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:34,509
he's got seven citations he's out of the

328
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:36,850
word pseudoscience to lead and then the

329
00:15:40,590 --> 00:15:38,410
only other page we've touched is the

330
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:40,600
Polish page which already had a warning

331
00:15:45,329 --> 00:15:42,880
that the page was incompatible with

332
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:45,339
current knowledge and he's sprucing it

333
00:15:51,259 --> 00:15:48,250
up I need more Italian and French

334
00:15:54,090 --> 00:15:51,269
editors and anything else in between to

335
00:15:56,639 --> 00:15:54,100
be able to support this because it's too

336
00:15:58,860 --> 00:15:56,649
important to just be focusing on English

337
00:16:00,769 --> 00:15:58,870
yes now what I like about this whole

338
00:16:03,329 --> 00:16:00,779
story of course is that since it

339
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:03,339
appeared in the news courtesy of the

340
00:16:09,090 --> 00:16:05,170
American swimming team and Michael

341
00:16:11,069 --> 00:16:09,100
Phelps in particular that you didn't

342
00:16:13,050 --> 00:16:11,079
waste any time you checked out the

343
00:16:15,540 --> 00:16:13,060
references on Wikipedia saw that they

344
00:16:19,170 --> 00:16:15,550
were completely inadequate and decided

345
00:16:21,449 --> 00:16:19,180
to amend the page to truly reflect what

346
00:16:23,610 --> 00:16:21,459
cupping is all about and as it says

347
00:16:25,559 --> 00:16:23,620
clearly on the page we've got the

348
00:16:27,780 --> 00:16:25,569
citations it's a celebrity fads it's

349
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,790
gibberish it is nonsense and I'm just so

350
00:16:32,129 --> 00:16:29,440
pleased that when people go to that page

351
00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:32,139
on Wikipedia there's no there's no two

352
00:16:38,309 --> 00:16:34,240
ways about it it click it states clearly

353
00:16:41,220 --> 00:16:38,319
what cupping is right and you know I

354
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:41,230
really want to point this out would you

355
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:42,639
say that they are going to go to the

356
00:16:46,980 --> 00:16:45,279
Wikipedia page and do it we really need

357
00:16:50,189 --> 00:16:46,990
some numbers because you know skeptics

358
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:50,199
like numbers and normally the cupping

359
00:16:56,509 --> 00:16:52,720
page was receiving about 900 views a day

360
00:17:00,840 --> 00:16:56,519
it went on August second no aqus on

361
00:17:04,020 --> 00:17:00,850
August seventh it went to 16,000 news on

362
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:04,030
that one day Wow and then on august

363
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:06,730
eighth august eight it hit a hundred and

364
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:10,480
six thousand views oh so it is gaining a

365
00:17:15,809 --> 00:17:13,839
lot of attention before badly looking to

366
00:17:18,899 --> 00:17:15,819
see what the heck cupping therapy is and

367
00:17:21,179 --> 00:17:18,909
if we don't have if it had just had

368
00:17:23,579 --> 00:17:21,189
those two sentences on there well then

369
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:23,589
you know the copying people all over the

370
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:25,329
world are going to be just going hey man

371
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:27,520
let's make some money here I mean it's

372
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:30,130
still can obviously bring in some

373
00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:31,650
dollars to him and

374
00:17:35,210 --> 00:17:33,030
the pseudoscience is going to become a

375
00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:35,220
big deal but you know we got to do

376
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:37,230
something about it we got it this is all

377
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:40,890
we can do and oh one more point I wanted

378
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:42,450
to make is that all the people that I've

379
00:17:46,850 --> 00:17:44,490
mentioned on the wikipedia page Simon

380
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:46,860
Singh mark crisp it Edward Ernst and

381
00:17:52,030 --> 00:17:49,290
David Calhoun and Harriet hall they've

382
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:52,040
all are mentioned on the lead of the

383
00:17:56,810 --> 00:17:54,720
fearless cupping therapy Wikipedia page

384
00:17:59,630 --> 00:17:56,820
and they're all seeing huge spikes in

385
00:18:01,670 --> 00:17:59,640
their wikipedia pages two thousand two

386
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:01,680
hundred percent nine hundred percent

387
00:18:06,020 --> 00:18:04,290
four hundred percent increase in there

388
00:18:09,140 --> 00:18:06,030
wikipedia views of course that's only

389
00:18:11,330 --> 00:18:09,150
like 100 or 200 views but people are

390
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:11,340
obviously interested enough that they're

391
00:18:15,050 --> 00:18:13,050
clicking on these peoples names and

392
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:15,060
reading their wikipedia page which is

393
00:18:20,060 --> 00:18:17,610
like a the goldilocks the fact you know

394
00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:20,070
you put out put it out there and

395
00:18:24,740 --> 00:18:22,260
hopefully it'll get some views to their

396
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:24,750
pages and people will learn more about

397
00:18:29,090 --> 00:18:27,090
skepticism and more about the people at

398
00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:29,100
our movement well this just illustrates

399
00:18:34,370 --> 00:18:31,860
the me Susan why what you do and your

400
00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:34,380
team is so important and you've been

401
00:18:38,030 --> 00:18:35,910
friends of the skeptic zone now for a

402
00:18:40,340 --> 00:18:38,040
very long time and I'm so sorry I won't

403
00:18:43,010 --> 00:18:40,350
be able to see you in October in the mid

404
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:43,020
the big skeptical meeting in Las Vegas I

405
00:18:48,050 --> 00:18:45,330
am so disappointed I'm not going to see

406
00:18:50,060 --> 00:18:48,060
you there either Richard but I will be

407
00:18:52,010 --> 00:18:50,070
seeing you hopefully by the end of the

408
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:52,020
year oh of course yes you're absolutely

409
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:53,910
right because you and I will be

410
00:18:58,910 --> 00:18:57,360
attending the New Zealand skeptics

411
00:19:01,370 --> 00:18:58,920
conference in I think that's early

412
00:19:03,860 --> 00:19:01,380
December yes it is just over first and

413
00:19:06,170 --> 00:19:03,870
second I'm hoping to fly in either a

414
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,180
week before the conference and a week

415
00:19:11,330 --> 00:19:08,640
after or something of that sort and I

416
00:19:14,330 --> 00:19:11,340
hope that I will be able to see many of

417
00:19:16,490 --> 00:19:14,340
the new zealand skeptics over there i

418
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:16,500
want to hang out with them and let's go

419
00:19:20,510 --> 00:19:18,720
do stuff i am so excited about new

420
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:20,520
zealand looking forward to that in folks

421
00:19:24,410 --> 00:19:22,080
i'll certainly let you know more about

422
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:24,420
that in the coming months well Susan

423
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:27,210
lovely to catch up with you good work on

424
00:19:32,750 --> 00:19:30,000
that cupping therapy page and as we

425
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:32,760
leave you there in California I'll just

426
00:19:39,770 --> 00:19:36,570
read out this page the page written by

427
00:19:41,490 --> 00:19:39,780
dr. bread Makai but for now Susan Kovac

428
00:19:50,550 --> 00:19:41,500
thank you very much

429
00:19:54,570 --> 00:19:50,560
thank you Richard why Team USA's use of

430
00:19:56,970 --> 00:19:54,580
cupping therapy really sucks by dr. Brad

431
00:20:02,460 --> 00:19:56,980
Makai published on the 9th of August

432
00:20:04,290 --> 00:20:02,470
2016 at news.com a you like old

433
00:20:06,690 --> 00:20:04,300
Australians I can get a bit carried away

434
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:06,700
while cheering for the green and gold at

435
00:20:11,370 --> 00:20:09,130
the Olympics but lately it hasn't been

436
00:20:15,210 --> 00:20:11,380
the Aussie team causing me to yell at

437
00:20:18,090 --> 00:20:15,220
the TV instead it's been Team USA's use

438
00:20:21,210 --> 00:20:18,100
of cupping therapy that has me hot under

439
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:21,220
the collar flouting their quote secret

440
00:20:26,250 --> 00:20:23,710
weapon and quote pull side and on the

441
00:20:29,850 --> 00:20:26,260
gym mats they've decorated themselves

442
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:29,860
with circular bruises nothing more than

443
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:32,170
giant hickeys they look like they've

444
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:34,810
lost a fight with a vacuum cleaner these

445
00:20:41,130 --> 00:20:37,120
mysterious marks are the result of

446
00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:41,140
placing hot glass cups on bare skin the

447
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:43,390
heat creates a vacuum which sucks up the

448
00:20:48,690 --> 00:20:46,450
underlying tissue supposedly mobilizing

449
00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:48,700
your blood and helping it to pump

450
00:20:53,580 --> 00:20:51,910
throughout your body cupping advocates

451
00:20:56,430 --> 00:20:53,590
will tell you that the practice draws

452
00:20:59,520 --> 00:20:56,440
toxins out of your skin and helps you to

453
00:21:02,010 --> 00:20:59,530
heal and relax after exercise if you're

454
00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:02,020
really adventurous you can explore quote

455
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:05,590
wet in quote cupping which involves

456
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:08,080
puncturing the skin before applying the

457
00:21:14,910 --> 00:21:11,410
cups and sucking out your quote bad

458
00:21:18,660 --> 00:21:14,920
blood end quote this traditional therapy

459
00:21:21,420 --> 00:21:18,670
is believed to date back to 3000 BC and

460
00:21:24,810 --> 00:21:21,430
is used in Islamic and Chinese

461
00:21:27,210 --> 00:21:24,820
traditional medicines put simply it is

462
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:27,220
one of the most ridiculous alternative

463
00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:29,890
therapies about there there is no

464
00:21:34,890 --> 00:21:32,110
scientific evidence that cupping works

465
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:34,900
for any of these things sucking your

466
00:21:40,140 --> 00:21:37,840
skin into a glass cup doesn't get rid of

467
00:21:42,570 --> 00:21:40,150
toxins or help you to heal more quickly

468
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:42,580
it only sucks the sweat out of your

469
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:45,670
pores in your skin and gives you a nasty

470
00:21:51,380 --> 00:21:48,850
round bruise same goes for wet cupping

471
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:51,390
which just causes an impressive-looking

472
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:54,880
scarf cupping is simply a fashionable

473
00:22:00,000 --> 00:21:57,610
pseudoscience and it can be extremely

474
00:22:02,970 --> 00:22:00,010
dangerous if not done correctly as a

475
00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:02,980
doctor I cringe whenever I see a patient

476
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:05,110
with cupping marks from a medical

477
00:22:10,650 --> 00:22:07,840
perspective I only see unnecessary

478
00:22:12,810 --> 00:22:10,660
injuries the suction from cupping causes

479
00:22:15,210 --> 00:22:12,820
the capillaries in your skin to break

480
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:15,220
and a bleed at best this causes a

481
00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:17,650
superficial bruise but at worst it can

482
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:20,320
cause deep bruises abrasions skin

483
00:22:26,610 --> 00:22:23,530
infections blistering and the heat can

484
00:22:28,530 --> 00:22:26,620
even cause third-degree burns only this

485
00:22:31,260 --> 00:22:28,540
year one man in China was left with

486
00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:31,270
burnt holes in his back after ongoing

487
00:22:36,330 --> 00:22:33,670
treatment it won't improve the healing

488
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:36,340
time for athletes and cupping actually

489
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:38,650
has the potential of slowing them down

490
00:22:43,860 --> 00:22:41,770
from pain or tissue damage by showing

491
00:22:46,770 --> 00:22:43,870
off their useless bruises with pride

492
00:22:48,990 --> 00:22:46,780
Team USA II could be conducting an

493
00:22:51,420 --> 00:22:49,000
incredible psychological campaign to

494
00:22:53,730 --> 00:22:51,430
intimidate their fellow Olympians but

495
00:22:56,580 --> 00:22:53,740
they appear to be fiercely uneducated

496
00:23:00,570 --> 00:22:56,590
about the pseudo scientific nature of

497
00:23:04,290 --> 00:23:00,580
this ancient but unnecessary traditional

498
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:04,300
therapy I only hope that keen fans won't

499
00:23:10,590 --> 00:23:08,110
follow their lead dr. Brad Makai is a GP

500
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:10,600
and host of embarrassing bodies down

501
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:13,510
under and as an aside he's also a

502
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:15,520
committee member of the Australian

503
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:20,050
skeptics find him at ww dr. brad mccoy

504
00:23:40,650 --> 00:23:23,050
calm day you will follow him on twitter

505
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:43,510
you've argued against the same woo so

506
00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:45,010
many times you can do it in your sleep

507
00:23:49,630 --> 00:23:47,510
with trying to stop the nonsense one

508
00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:49,640
person at a time join guerrilla

509
00:23:54,220 --> 00:23:52,430
skepticism on Wikipedia help us make

510
00:23:56,590 --> 00:23:54,230
sure the best skeptical information is

511
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:56,600
always at everyone's fingertips we need

512
00:24:02,200 --> 00:23:59,840
writers editors translators we need you

513
00:24:05,290 --> 00:24:02,210
and take as much or as little time as

514
00:24:07,419 --> 00:24:05,300
you can give us help us make Wikipedia

515
00:24:08,860 --> 00:24:07,429
as accurate as it can be and you'll

516
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:08,870
literally be helping people while you

517
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:12,320
sleep to join us or find out more send a

518
00:24:18,150 --> 00:24:14,450
facebook friend request to susan gurbin

519
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:18,160
that's ger be IC guerrilla skepticism

520
00:24:37,630 --> 00:24:34,370
the time is now from me website of

521
00:24:41,980 --> 00:24:37,640
australian skeptics skeptics calm that I

522
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:41,990
you hands us medal for ken harvey my

523
00:24:46,990 --> 00:24:43,520
team mendham written on the 9th of

524
00:24:48,970 --> 00:24:47,000
august 2016 the Australian and New

525
00:24:52,210 --> 00:24:48,980
Zealand Association for the Advancement

526
00:24:56,110 --> 00:24:52,220
of science has awarded dr. ken harvey

527
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:56,120
the 2016 ANZUS metal the metal which is

528
00:25:00,940 --> 00:24:58,330
awarded annually for services for the

529
00:25:03,910 --> 00:25:00,950
Advancement of science or administration

530
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:03,920
or organization of scientific activities

531
00:25:08,020 --> 00:25:06,170
or the teaching of science throughout

532
00:25:10,030 --> 00:25:08,030
Australia and New Zealand and in

533
00:25:12,750 --> 00:25:10,040
contributions to science which lie

534
00:25:15,250 --> 00:25:12,760
beyond normal professional activities

535
00:25:18,790 --> 00:25:15,260
previous winners of the metal includes

536
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:18,800
cigars nozzle sir mark olifant and Harry

537
00:25:24,820 --> 00:25:21,890
missile dr. Harvey is one of Australia's

538
00:25:27,180 --> 00:25:24,830
leading campaigners against non science

539
00:25:29,380 --> 00:25:27,190
based medicines and a critic of

540
00:25:31,950 --> 00:25:29,390
pharmaceutical marketing he has been

541
00:25:35,740 --> 00:25:31,960
described by the age newspaper as an

542
00:25:39,970 --> 00:25:35,750
quote anti quackery Crusader in quote

543
00:25:42,370 --> 00:25:39,980
and by choice magazine as quote a serial

544
00:25:43,389 --> 00:25:42,380
complainer unquote the latter made him a

545
00:25:45,459 --> 00:25:43,399
life member

546
00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:45,469
services to the consumer movement in

547
00:25:51,009 --> 00:25:48,529
2012 Australian skeptics awarded him the

548
00:25:53,619 --> 00:25:51,019
Thor net award for the promotion of

549
00:25:57,820 --> 00:25:53,629
Reason in 2011 and made him a life

550
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:57,830
member in 2013 among the wide range of

551
00:26:02,229 --> 00:26:00,320
his campaign activities he is

552
00:26:05,229 --> 00:26:02,239
particularly well known in skeptical

553
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:05,239
circles for his fight against the sensor

554
00:26:11,859 --> 00:26:08,450
slim diet product where the company took

555
00:26:14,019 --> 00:26:11,869
him to court in a slap suit Australian

556
00:26:17,349 --> 00:26:14,029
skeptics organised a public fundraising

557
00:26:20,289 --> 00:26:17,359
exercise to cover his legal expenses he

558
00:26:22,930 --> 00:26:20,299
won the case dr. Harvey was a member of

559
00:26:26,829 --> 00:26:22,940
the expert group that drafted the World

560
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:26,839
Health Organization ethical criteria for

561
00:26:32,109 --> 00:26:30,320
medical drug promotion and also the

562
00:26:35,769 --> 00:26:32,119
Commonwealth pharmaceutical health and

563
00:26:38,229 --> 00:26:35,779
rational use of medicines pH a RM

564
00:26:42,669 --> 00:26:38,239
committee that formulated the quality of

565
00:26:46,089 --> 00:26:42,679
use medicines q um pillar of australian

566
00:26:48,149 --> 00:26:46,099
medicines policy he has recently served

567
00:26:51,639 --> 00:26:48,159
on the Therapeutic Goods Administration

568
00:26:53,529 --> 00:26:51,649
TGA transparency review panel the

569
00:26:56,229 --> 00:26:53,539
working group on promotion of

570
00:26:58,539 --> 00:26:56,239
therapeutic products medicines Australia

571
00:27:00,879 --> 00:26:58,549
code review panel and the Australian

572
00:27:03,729 --> 00:27:00,889
Government's natural therapy review

573
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:03,739
Advisory Committee he will receive his

574
00:27:08,079 --> 00:27:05,450
medal at a ceremony in Melbourne on

575
00:27:10,389 --> 00:27:08,089
august seventeenth it is given this year

576
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:10,399
as part of National Science Week and

577
00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:12,799
it's nice to know that our dear friend

578
00:27:17,739 --> 00:27:15,289
Lynn Kelly has made a comment on the

579
00:27:20,379 --> 00:27:17,749
webpage congratulations to Ken on a

580
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:20,389
well-deserved award and thank you to the

581
00:27:25,139 --> 00:27:22,159
skeptics for keeping us so well informed

582
00:27:28,269 --> 00:27:25,149
on these issues much appreciated and

583
00:27:31,299 --> 00:27:28,279
indeed congratulations to dr. ken harvey

584
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:31,309
a tireless campaigner for science and

585
00:27:49,910 --> 00:27:47,690
quick watch your guide to quackery

586
00:27:53,299 --> 00:27:49,920
health fraud and intelligent decisions

587
00:27:55,310 --> 00:27:53,309
operated by stephen barrett md quack

588
00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:55,320
watch is now an international network of

589
00:27:59,180 --> 00:27:56,940
people who concerned about

590
00:28:01,670 --> 00:27:59,190
health-related frauds myths fans

591
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:01,680
fallacies and misconduct its primary

592
00:28:07,010 --> 00:28:04,530
focus is on quackery related information

593
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:07,020
that is difficult or impossible to get

594
00:28:13,220 --> 00:28:09,809
elsewhere articles on quackery include

595
00:28:17,210 --> 00:28:13,230
quackery how should it be defined how it

596
00:28:20,030 --> 00:28:17,220
sells 26 ways to spot it how it harms

597
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:20,040
cancer patients 7 warning signs for

598
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:22,530
bogus science why health professionals

599
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:25,520
become quacks and many more including

600
00:28:31,130 --> 00:28:27,450
in-depth looks at acupuncture

601
00:28:53,950 --> 00:28:31,140
chiropractic homeopathy naturopathy and

602
00:29:09,470 --> 00:28:58,550
interesting claims questioning take

603
00:29:11,540 --> 00:29:09,480
stock with shelley stockin hi this is

604
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:11,550
Shelly stockin and today i'm talking

605
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:15,450
about demons in a recent self-guided

606
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:17,370
tour of the internet i came across a

607
00:29:22,390 --> 00:29:19,650
page entitled how to differentiate

608
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:22,400
demonic possession from schizophrenia

609
00:29:28,670 --> 00:29:25,290
this will be fun I thought lots of head

610
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:28,680
spinning and spewing on bystanders but

611
00:29:33,410 --> 00:29:30,720
as I read on I realized it wasn't much

612
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:33,420
fun at all this page was a serious guide

613
00:29:37,220 --> 00:29:35,490
for interpreting the unusual behavior of

614
00:29:40,190 --> 00:29:37,230
a loved one and making a spiritual

615
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:40,200
diagnosis I was stunned to learn that in

616
00:29:43,910 --> 00:29:42,450
some religious circles demonic

617
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:43,920
possession is still considered a

618
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:45,690
reasonable explanation for mental

619
00:29:50,810 --> 00:29:48,570
illness the page i found was basically a

620
00:29:52,820 --> 00:29:50,820
summary of a chapter in a book called

621
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:52,830
strength for his people by Stephen

622
00:29:57,950 --> 00:29:55,440
Waterhouse the pastor at westcliff Bible

623
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:57,960
Church in Texas the church's website

624
00:30:02,180 --> 00:30:00,240
describes the book as a biblical

625
00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:02,190
perspective on mental illnesses and

626
00:30:07,730 --> 00:30:05,700
other family problems Stephen Waterhouse

627
00:30:09,950 --> 00:30:07,740
has a doctor of ministry from Dallas

628
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:09,960
Theological Seminary and a master of

629
00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:11,760
theology in Hebrew and Greek from

630
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:14,070
capitol seminary near Washington DC as

631
00:30:18,110 --> 00:30:16,410
well as undergraduate degrees in social

632
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:18,120
sciences from spring arbor university

633
00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:20,910
and cornerstone university in Grand

634
00:30:26,030 --> 00:30:23,790
Rapids Michigan so he seems adequately

635
00:30:28,790 --> 00:30:26,040
qualified to be a church pastor and a

636
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:28,800
social scientist his interest in mental

637
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:30,450
health stems largely from his experience

638
00:30:36,050 --> 00:30:32,730
with his brother who was diagnosed with

639
00:30:37,670 --> 00:30:36,060
schizophrenia in his teens I'm certain

640
00:30:40,010 --> 00:30:37,680
that Waterhouse's intentions are good

641
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,020
and he only wants to help people to

642
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:42,000
reconcile their belief in supernatural

643
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:43,650
beings and the hardship of mental

644
00:30:49,310 --> 00:30:47,130
illness he has first-hand experience of

645
00:30:51,740 --> 00:30:49,320
living with and caring for a seriously

646
00:30:52,580 --> 00:30:51,750
ill person and wants to provide support

647
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:52,590
for others

648
00:30:58,010 --> 00:30:55,710
through the same experience but if as

649
00:31:00,590 --> 00:30:58,020
they say the road to hell is paved with

650
00:31:03,710 --> 00:31:00,600
good intentions this guy is headed south

651
00:31:05,779 --> 00:31:03,720
word I have no doubt religion provides

652
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:05,789
many troubled people and their families

653
00:31:12,140 --> 00:31:08,490
with great comfort but it has no place

654
00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:12,150
in diagnosing mental illness so let's

655
00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:13,980
take a look at what waterhouse has to

656
00:31:20,180 --> 00:31:16,110
say about how to differentiate between

657
00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:20,190
schizophrenia and demonic possession he

658
00:31:26,419 --> 00:31:22,049
conveniently breaks the distinction into

659
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:26,429
six factors factor one attraction two

660
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:30,720
versus aversion to religion according to

661
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:33,120
Waterhouse possessed people can't stand

662
00:31:37,399 --> 00:31:35,370
talking about Christ but mentally ill

663
00:31:40,639 --> 00:31:37,409
people are fine with it in many cases

664
00:31:42,529 --> 00:31:40,649
even enthusiastically devout if the

665
00:31:44,810 --> 00:31:42,539
affected person is comfortable when the

666
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:44,820
discussion turns to Jesus doesn't object

667
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:47,250
to an exorcism or shows a keen interest

668
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:49,919
in religion then demonic possession is

669
00:31:55,610 --> 00:31:52,880
to be ruled out earlier in the chapter

670
00:31:57,730 --> 00:31:55,620
the author describes the behavior of his

671
00:32:01,039 --> 00:31:57,740
brother during a schizophrenic episode

672
00:32:02,930 --> 00:32:01,049
he says I saw my brother ripping up a

673
00:32:06,019 --> 00:32:02,940
Bible and smashing Christian wall

674
00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:06,029
decorations this seems to contradict his

675
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:07,500
assertion that people with schizophrenia

676
00:32:14,029 --> 00:32:11,490
are friendly to Jesus but that's not the

677
00:32:15,889 --> 00:32:14,039
only problem with this point it fails to

678
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:15,899
take into account the person's religious

679
00:32:21,230 --> 00:32:17,730
leanings before they started showing

680
00:32:22,850 --> 00:32:21,240
symptoms to people who have no religion

681
00:32:25,070 --> 00:32:22,860
suddenly become religious when they

682
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:25,080
become mentally ill or suddenly become

683
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:26,970
hostile towards religious figures when

684
00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:29,850
possessed is it the same pattern for

685
00:32:34,070 --> 00:32:31,950
people of different religions what sort

686
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:34,080
of demons possess a Buddhist and atheist

687
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:36,690
or a Muslim is religious belief

688
00:32:42,289 --> 00:32:38,970
correlated with mental illness so many

689
00:32:44,570 --> 00:32:42,299
questions the second factor of

690
00:32:48,139 --> 00:32:44,580
Waterhouse's analysis is irrational

691
00:32:51,710 --> 00:32:48,149
speech versus rational speech waterhouse

692
00:32:53,870 --> 00:32:51,720
says in New Testament accounts involving

693
00:32:56,180 --> 00:32:53,880
demons the demons spoke in a rational

694
00:32:57,830 --> 00:32:56,190
manner untreated people with

695
00:32:59,659 --> 00:32:57,840
schizophrenia will often speak in

696
00:33:03,770 --> 00:32:59,669
nonsense and jump rapidly between

697
00:33:05,930 --> 00:33:03,780
unrelated topics he says that in cases

698
00:33:06,259 --> 00:33:05,940
where the affected person makes sense we

699
00:33:09,589 --> 00:33:06,269
should

700
00:33:12,589 --> 00:33:09,599
towards demonic involvement this seems

701
00:33:14,749 --> 00:33:12,599
ridiculously simplistic if the words

702
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:14,759
don't make sense the patient is sick if

703
00:33:20,239 --> 00:33:17,279
they do make sense the patient is

704
00:33:23,209 --> 00:33:20,249
possessed and what text is the author

705
00:33:26,029 --> 00:33:23,219
refer to for his diagnostic standard the

706
00:33:27,829 --> 00:33:26,039
New Testament of the Bible I don't know

707
00:33:30,049 --> 00:33:27,839
much about psychiatry but I'm pretty

708
00:33:33,139 --> 00:33:30,059
sure the Bible has been superseded as a

709
00:33:35,899 --> 00:33:33,149
diagnostic tool moving on to the third

710
00:33:38,829 --> 00:33:35,909
factor of differentiation ordinary

711
00:33:41,180 --> 00:33:38,839
learning versus supernatural knowledge

712
00:33:43,729 --> 00:33:41,190
when you're a demon taking up residence

713
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:43,739
in a terrestrial host you have the

714
00:33:49,009 --> 00:33:45,570
ability to communicate through the body

715
00:33:50,959 --> 00:33:49,019
you've possessed as a result possessed

716
00:33:52,969 --> 00:33:50,969
people may be able to express knowledge

717
00:33:57,499 --> 00:33:52,979
and display abilities of which they have

718
00:33:59,209 --> 00:33:57,509
no prior learning waterhouse says those

719
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:59,219
were the mental illness have no such

720
00:34:04,609 --> 00:34:01,200
ability to know facts they have not

721
00:34:06,199 --> 00:34:04,619
acquired by normal means of learning the

722
00:34:09,470 --> 00:34:06,209
examples provided in the book are

723
00:34:11,659 --> 00:34:09,480
clairvoyance and zeno glossy or the

724
00:34:14,599 --> 00:34:11,669
ability to speak in a language not known

725
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:14,609
by the speaker the author doesn't

726
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:16,169
provide any references for these

727
00:34:20,889 --> 00:34:18,450
examples so we are left to rely on his

728
00:34:23,210 --> 00:34:20,899
assurance that they actually happen

729
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:23,220
factor number four in this guide to

730
00:34:29,210 --> 00:34:25,919
mental illness or possession is normal

731
00:34:32,029 --> 00:34:29,220
versus occultic phenomena waterhouse

732
00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:32,039
says there is an aspect to demon

733
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:35,730
activity that is just plain spooky no

734
00:34:42,490 --> 00:34:39,049
argument from me there he goes on to say

735
00:34:46,190 --> 00:34:42,500
if there are occurrences of poltergeists

736
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:46,200
levitations trances telepathy and these

737
00:34:50,809 --> 00:34:48,210
cannot be ruled out as being optical

738
00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:50,819
illusions or fraudulent displays then

739
00:34:55,700 --> 00:34:52,529
one is not dealing with ordinary

740
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:55,710
schizophrenia in a tidy example of

741
00:34:59,299 --> 00:34:57,359
circular reasoning this factor

742
00:35:01,460 --> 00:34:59,309
essentially says that if there are

743
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:01,470
paranormal phenomena present then

744
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:03,839
something paranormal is going on this

745
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:05,730
factor relies on the presumption of

746
00:35:11,089 --> 00:35:08,130
demonic possession as a possible

747
00:35:13,370 --> 00:35:11,099
diagnosis at least he suggests that

748
00:35:16,190 --> 00:35:13,380
apparently paranormal phenomena could be

749
00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:16,200
optical illusions or fraud but he stops

750
00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:17,910
short of applying the same level of

751
00:35:22,070 --> 00:35:20,040
skepticism to the idea of demonic

752
00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:22,080
position itself point five in water

753
00:35:26,450 --> 00:35:24,630
houses analysis is the claim to be

754
00:35:30,530 --> 00:35:26,460
possessed and this one makes a little

755
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:30,540
sense he says authors who have clinical

756
00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:32,490
experience both with demon possession

757
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:34,740
and mental illness believe those who

758
00:35:41,390 --> 00:35:36,930
claim to be possessed are very likely

759
00:35:42,770 --> 00:35:41,400
not possessed I completely agree that

760
00:35:44,810 --> 00:35:42,780
people who claim to be possessed

761
00:35:47,650 --> 00:35:44,820
probably aren't but that's only because

762
00:35:50,570 --> 00:35:47,660
I don't think demonic possession is real

763
00:35:52,220 --> 00:35:50,580
Waterhouse's reasoning is different he

764
00:35:54,410 --> 00:35:52,230
claims that demons are secretive

765
00:35:58,220 --> 00:35:54,420
critters and don't like to brag about

766
00:36:00,260 --> 00:35:58,230
taking over someone's body so if someone

767
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:00,270
is truly possessed they're unlikely to

768
00:36:04,580 --> 00:36:02,850
admit it which leaves it up to observers

769
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:04,590
to judge whether or not demonic

770
00:36:09,620 --> 00:36:06,000
possession is the cause of their

771
00:36:11,630 --> 00:36:09,630
behavior and surely only observers who

772
00:36:13,940 --> 00:36:11,640
already consider demonic possession a

773
00:36:16,910 --> 00:36:13,950
possibility are likely to decide that

774
00:36:18,590 --> 00:36:16,920
someone is possessed how this

775
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:18,600
distinction is helpful to people with

776
00:36:23,450 --> 00:36:21,690
mental illness escapes me completely the

777
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:23,460
final factor of distinction between

778
00:36:30,110 --> 00:36:25,770
mental illness and demonic possession is

779
00:36:33,350 --> 00:36:30,120
the effect of therapy it states if

780
00:36:36,530 --> 00:36:33,360
prayer solves the problem then it was

781
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:36,540
probably not schizophrenia if medicine

782
00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:38,850
helps alleviate the problem it was not

783
00:36:45,230 --> 00:36:42,480
demon possession again I completely

784
00:36:47,570 --> 00:36:45,240
agree with these statements I agree that

785
00:36:49,940 --> 00:36:47,580
if prayer solves a problem then that

786
00:36:52,370 --> 00:36:49,950
problem was not schizophrenia it

787
00:36:56,060 --> 00:36:52,380
probably wasn't a broken leg cystitis or

788
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:56,070
world poverty either in fact prayer has

789
00:37:00,980 --> 00:36:57,930
a pretty poor record for fixing things

790
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:00,990
statistically speaking relying on the

791
00:37:04,730 --> 00:37:02,850
effects of prayer to alleviate someone's

792
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:04,740
real and immediate suffering is pretty

793
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:07,680
irresponsible if praying is your thing

794
00:37:14,930 --> 00:37:10,890
knock yourself out but maybe also seek a

795
00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:14,940
professional advice I also agree that if

796
00:37:19,970 --> 00:37:17,070
medicine helps alleviate the problem it

797
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:19,980
was not demon possession in fact you

798
00:37:24,140 --> 00:37:21,510
could take medicine out of the equation

799
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:24,150
altogether and I'd still be satisfied

800
00:37:28,580 --> 00:37:26,330
that demons were never involved

801
00:37:30,860 --> 00:37:28,590
including the possibility of demonic

802
00:37:33,350 --> 00:37:30,870
possession in any assessment of mental

803
00:37:36,380 --> 00:37:33,360
illness does nobody any good

804
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:36,390
if possession is assumed effective

805
00:37:41,570 --> 00:37:39,330
treatment can be delayed in extreme

806
00:37:44,660 --> 00:37:41,580
cases this could mean a rapid escalation

807
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:44,670
if the condition is left unchecked which

808
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:46,410
can be dangerous for the sufferer and

809
00:37:51,260 --> 00:37:49,110
for the people around them a diagnosis

810
00:37:54,460 --> 00:37:51,270
of demonic possession could in fact be

811
00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:54,470
the trigger for worsening symptoms

812
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:56,510
imagine being in a state of distress

813
00:38:01,490 --> 00:37:59,280
confusion or fear because of a mental

814
00:38:03,290 --> 00:38:01,500
illness only to be told that your

815
00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:03,300
condition is the result of an evil

816
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:06,060
spiritual parasite that's hardly going

817
00:38:11,060 --> 00:38:08,850
to improve your mood and when an

818
00:38:13,750 --> 00:38:11,070
exorcism in vervet of belief fails to

819
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:13,760
rid you of your inner turmoil what then

820
00:38:18,980 --> 00:38:16,490
finding out you're possessed is bad

821
00:38:21,260 --> 00:38:18,990
discovering relief is impossible can

822
00:38:24,020 --> 00:38:21,270
only increase distress confusion and

823
00:38:26,990 --> 00:38:24,030
fear why do demons even need to come

824
00:38:28,460 --> 00:38:27,000
into it believers seem to be able to

825
00:38:32,180 --> 00:38:28,470
explain other bad things without

826
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:32,190
resorting to evil spirits some hardships

827
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:34,770
are even attributed to God himself if

828
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:37,890
fire flood famine and flesh-eating

829
00:38:42,740 --> 00:38:40,110
viruses can be part of God's plan why

830
00:38:45,620 --> 00:38:42,750
not mental illness why is that left to

831
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:45,630
demons sky daddy seems comfortable

832
00:38:50,270 --> 00:38:47,730
inflicting boils and blindness and

833
00:38:52,990 --> 00:38:50,280
botulism but outsources brain work to

834
00:38:55,940 --> 00:38:53,000
Beelzebub's it doesn't make sense I

835
00:38:59,780 --> 00:38:55,950
don't see why modern psychiatry can't

836
00:39:01,640 --> 00:38:59,790
exist within a religious framework it's

837
00:39:04,610 --> 00:39:01,650
a long time since I believed in God and

838
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:04,620
Jesus but even in my happiest clappy

839
00:39:08,900 --> 00:39:06,810
asst christian days i still thought

840
00:39:10,820 --> 00:39:08,910
humans ability to think and learn and

841
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:10,830
analyze our world was part of the big

842
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:14,250
guys long-term plan the idea that some

843
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:16,170
of us could study humans closely enough

844
00:39:21,470 --> 00:39:18,210
to diagnose and treat mental illness and

845
00:39:23,780 --> 00:39:21,480
make life better in a scientific way fit

846
00:39:25,620 --> 00:39:23,790
easily into my understanding of what God

847
00:39:27,870 --> 00:39:25,630
wanted us to do

848
00:39:30,180 --> 00:39:27,880
but the idea that some mental illness

849
00:39:33,059 --> 00:39:30,190
might still be thrown into the possessed

850
00:39:44,339 --> 00:39:33,069
by a demon basket makes me shake my head

851
00:39:46,740 --> 00:39:44,349
in disbelief greetings listeners it's me

852
00:39:49,109 --> 00:39:46,750
captain disillusion on my youtube

853
00:39:51,690 --> 00:39:49,119
channel called captain disillusion aye

854
00:39:53,789 --> 00:39:51,700
captain disillusion analyzed viral

855
00:39:56,099 --> 00:39:53,799
videos of the strange and unbelievable I

856
00:39:58,740 --> 00:39:56,109
explain how interframe video compression

857
00:40:00,900 --> 00:39:58,750
3d motion tracking and stock the effects

858
00:40:02,999 --> 00:40:00,910
elements prove that Justin Bieber is not

859
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:03,009
a secret reptilian alien that those

860
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:04,720
videos of ghost cars are just

861
00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:06,910
unintentional optical illusions and that

862
00:40:10,289 --> 00:40:08,710
lightning did not strike a few feet away

863
00:40:13,170 --> 00:40:10,299
from a girl on a beach as we saw on the

864
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:13,180
news I'm real fun at parties my best

865
00:40:17,609 --> 00:40:15,609
friend is a lens flare Eden dimmer

866
00:40:19,559 --> 00:40:17,619
switch disillusion I do know other

867
00:40:22,170 --> 00:40:19,569
people sometimes they even show up in my

868
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:22,180
videos people like skepticism is grandpa

869
00:40:27,029 --> 00:40:24,130
james randi sirve de Soleil Acrobat

870
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:27,039
Erica Lynn's weight loss enthusiast Penn

871
00:40:31,289 --> 00:40:29,170
Jillette and the actual Beekman from

872
00:40:33,329 --> 00:40:31,299
Beakman's world I hope you'll check out

873
00:40:35,490 --> 00:40:33,339
my adventures interact with me in a

874
00:40:38,279 --> 00:40:35,500
platonic way and even consider becoming

875
00:40:40,859 --> 00:40:38,289
a patron of my work you can do all that

876
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:40,869
and more on youtube or at captain

877
00:41:05,020 --> 00:40:55,270
it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi

878
00:41:13,859 --> 00:41:05,030
Robertson this is Heidi Robertson coming

879
00:41:17,260 --> 00:41:13,869
to you live from Brisbane skeptical and

880
00:41:20,109 --> 00:41:17,270
we have had many very interesting talks

881
00:41:21,970 --> 00:41:20,119
today it's been lots of fun and I

882
00:41:24,609 --> 00:41:21,980
thought I'd take the opportunity to just

883
00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:24,619
see what kind of people we've got today

884
00:41:30,220 --> 00:41:28,310
in the audience and who have we got here

885
00:41:33,390 --> 00:41:30,230
what is your name and why do you call

886
00:41:35,859 --> 00:41:33,400
yourself a skeptic my name is Alex I

887
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:35,869
suppose I call myself a skeptic because

888
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:38,720
I like to form myself using the

889
00:41:41,890 --> 00:41:40,490
scientific method and trying to inform

890
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:41,900
myself as much as possible about as many

891
00:41:47,020 --> 00:41:44,690
things as possible and have you had a

892
00:41:48,609 --> 00:41:47,030
talk today that has particularly

893
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:48,619
interested you or that you've

894
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:51,440
particularly enjoyed well I'm a psych

895
00:41:54,370 --> 00:41:52,880
student so I really enjoyed the

896
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:54,380
dunning-kruger effect that we just had

897
00:42:00,190 --> 00:41:57,290
yeah that was a great talk and who else

898
00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:00,200
have we got over here what's your name

899
00:42:04,809 --> 00:42:01,730
and why do you call yourself a skeptic

900
00:42:07,569 --> 00:42:04,819
g'day my name's Nick I consider I got

901
00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:07,579
into skepticism out of my rejection of

902
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:10,510
religion in just after I left school and

903
00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:15,170
sort of looking at my the things that I

904
00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:19,520
believed in a rational sense and can do

905
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:22,550
it that way so yeah and the the talk

906
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:24,410
today that I enjoyed the most was the

907
00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:29,210
first one I think was it Ken yes that

908
00:42:34,809 --> 00:42:31,520
was that was fantastic the way the work

909
00:42:36,730 --> 00:42:34,819
that he's doing with decreasing the Wu

910
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:36,740
and the medical profession that's great

911
00:42:41,859 --> 00:42:39,770
yes thank you to Ken MacLeod for that

912
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:41,869
and the great work that stopped the

913
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:44,450
avian has been doing hello what's your

914
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:46,130
name and why do you call yourself a

915
00:42:51,460 --> 00:42:49,040
skeptic hi I'm Kath I call myself a

916
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:51,470
skeptic because i enjoy understanding

917
00:42:55,839 --> 00:42:54,079
things and um i like the scientific

918
00:42:59,140 --> 00:42:55,849
method as a way of understanding the

919
00:43:03,220 --> 00:42:59,150
world and you gave is a very interesting

920
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:03,230
talk today as well what was he just give

921
00:43:04,630 --> 00:43:03,410
us

922
00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:04,640
the bare bones of what you talked about

923
00:43:10,930 --> 00:43:08,000
today I talked today about my personal

924
00:43:15,490 --> 00:43:10,940
experience with muscle testing or

925
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:15,500
applied kinesiology and the sunk cost

926
00:43:20,829 --> 00:43:18,530
fallacy what do you mean by the sunk

927
00:43:23,319 --> 00:43:20,839
cost fallacy when you spend a lot of

928
00:43:24,970 --> 00:43:23,329
time and effort and money usually in

929
00:43:26,980 --> 00:43:24,980
something that it makes it harder and

930
00:43:30,339 --> 00:43:26,990
harder to give up no matter how silly it

931
00:43:32,770 --> 00:43:30,349
starts to become and apart from your own

932
00:43:35,620 --> 00:43:32,780
talk what's been your favorite one today

933
00:43:38,170 --> 00:43:35,630
I've enjoyed them all I really enjoyed

934
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:38,180
the lady this morning who is the

935
00:43:43,210 --> 00:43:41,119
dietitian yes that was Mandy Noble and I

936
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:43,220
have had the pleasure of doing an

937
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:45,770
interview with her as well okay who else

938
00:43:53,980 --> 00:43:51,170
have we got mr. David bolts and why do

939
00:43:56,730 --> 00:43:53,990
you call yourself a skeptic um I suppose

940
00:43:59,819 --> 00:43:56,740
it goes back a long while idea i

941
00:44:04,839 --> 00:43:59,829
originally thought myself was a skeptic

942
00:44:08,260 --> 00:44:04,849
but until i moved to australia in 2007 I

943
00:44:10,569 --> 00:44:08,270
was actually a truther and believed in

944
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:10,579
the Bilderberg Group a new world or new

945
00:44:16,690 --> 00:44:13,760
world order and all those and i think i

946
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:16,700
was skeptical of government and things

947
00:44:22,049 --> 00:44:20,089
like that but i realized having listened

948
00:44:25,210 --> 00:44:22,059
to dr. carl and then the skeptic zone

949
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:25,220
thank you very much that my thought

950
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:29,359
process wasn't right and I will learn to

951
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:32,240
think skeptically and it opened a whole

952
00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:34,010
new world for me and it's been a

953
00:44:40,089 --> 00:44:36,910
revelation I've absolutely found

954
00:44:42,579 --> 00:44:40,099
wonderful and to come to that way of

955
00:44:44,289 --> 00:44:42,589
thinking eventually it has been been

956
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:44,299
great for me it's opened up my eyes and

957
00:44:50,319 --> 00:44:48,410
and that's why I say to people you know

958
00:44:53,170 --> 00:44:50,329
I am a skeptic and I will learn the hard

959
00:44:55,299 --> 00:44:53,180
way and so I'm proud to say that

960
00:44:57,010 --> 00:44:55,309
actually rather than you know believing

961
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:57,020
in all the rubbish that's out there so

962
00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:00,079
yeah that's why very good and do you

963
00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:02,720
think your son ross who's sitting right

964
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:05,260
next to you had anything to do with that

965
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:09,410
change in your thinking uh no i don't

966
00:45:14,260 --> 00:45:11,510
think it is I think I came to skepticism

967
00:45:16,110 --> 00:45:14,270
actually introduced Ross to skepticism

968
00:45:20,670 --> 00:45:16,120
more than the other way around

969
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:20,680
it was oh I'm not my education stopped

970
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:23,290
at school that was it but obviously

971
00:45:27,870 --> 00:45:25,810
russ's going to university and and done

972
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:27,880
well but I think I I said oh you should

973
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:29,920
listen to this podcast it's great you

974
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:32,170
learn so much and from there we've both

975
00:45:38,850 --> 00:45:35,110
sort of got into it together so I'm up

976
00:45:40,530 --> 00:45:38,860
absolutely glad today introduces David

977
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:40,540
bolt rather than roses dad because I've

978
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:44,650
always lost his dad so yes I add my own

979
00:45:50,580 --> 00:45:47,440
identity yeah well Ross is a bit of a

980
00:45:52,110 --> 00:45:50,590
celebrity in his own right Ross has well

981
00:45:55,110 --> 00:45:52,120
here we go Ross you've got your own

982
00:45:57,180 --> 00:45:55,120
podcast tell us about that yeah well I i

983
00:45:58,200 --> 00:45:57,190
used to i guess i haven't done episodes

984
00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:58,210
for a while but i was doing the

985
00:46:02,310 --> 00:45:59,920
skeptically challenge podcast for a long

986
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:02,320
time which basically was just a look at

987
00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:04,810
the the local news and from a skeptical

988
00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:06,790
been and yeah it's interesting actually

989
00:46:10,620 --> 00:46:08,560
because I've always sort of been a bit

990
00:46:13,260 --> 00:46:10,630
skeptical like I remember as a kid

991
00:46:14,490 --> 00:46:13,270
hearing about the arc story you know and

992
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:14,500
thinking there's no way all those

993
00:46:17,580 --> 00:46:15,970
animals fit in that arc that's

994
00:46:19,470 --> 00:46:17,590
ridiculous i think i was about five at

995
00:46:21,090 --> 00:46:19,480
the time because you can talk about that

996
00:46:23,790 --> 00:46:21,100
stuff in english schools religions sort

997
00:46:25,830 --> 00:46:23,800
of okay but then i remember yeah dad had

998
00:46:27,930 --> 00:46:25,840
been listening to dr. carl and i think

999
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:27,940
it was maybe even the skeptic podcast

1000
00:46:32,010 --> 00:46:30,130
and he said I rush gotta listen to the

1001
00:46:35,070 --> 00:46:32,020
scaphoid podcast I think you'll really

1002
00:46:36,780 --> 00:46:35,080
like it and I just remember listening to

1003
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:36,790
this kind of skeptical analysis for the

1004
00:46:41,070 --> 00:46:39,250
first time and thinking wow this is

1005
00:46:43,350 --> 00:46:41,080
really cool like this is how I sort of

1006
00:46:45,180 --> 00:46:43,360
would like to think about things could

1007
00:46:46,590 --> 00:46:45,190
you you've found your people yeah

1008
00:46:48,060 --> 00:46:46,600
exactly because you know when you're

1009
00:46:51,780 --> 00:46:48,070
when you're young you don't always have

1010
00:46:53,550 --> 00:46:51,790
the intellectual energy to put into that

1011
00:46:55,170 --> 00:46:53,560
kind of thinking and then you realize

1012
00:46:57,300 --> 00:46:55,180
that it's really worth the energy and

1013
00:47:00,110 --> 00:46:57,310
since then I just haven't been able to

1014
00:47:02,310 --> 00:47:00,120
stop engaging with the community in and

1015
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:02,320
obviously taking part in events like

1016
00:47:06,750 --> 00:47:05,440
this and you know now we're SAT with

1017
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:06,760
Brisbane skeptics and all of the

1018
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:08,290
committee you've done this amazing job

1019
00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:10,690
today to bring us this this event so

1020
00:47:16,140 --> 00:47:13,740
it's pretty amazing just getting back to

1021
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:16,150
when you were five years old and hearing

1022
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:20,050
about the arc story I am sure a certain

1023
00:47:24,990 --> 00:47:23,170
Ken Ham might be able to explain exactly

1024
00:47:27,090 --> 00:47:25,000
how all the animals including the

1025
00:47:29,490 --> 00:47:27,100
dinosaurs got on the ark of you ever

1026
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:29,500
considered going and having a look at

1027
00:47:36,450 --> 00:47:29,650
the

1028
00:47:37,470 --> 00:47:36,460
like watching a train wreck I can't I've

1029
00:47:40,140 --> 00:47:37,480
I mean there would be a certain amount

1030
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:40,150
of curiosity but I think bill nye went

1031
00:47:46,109 --> 00:47:42,490
recently and I think his report would be

1032
00:47:48,359 --> 00:47:46,119
enough for me all right and Ross what

1033
00:47:51,390 --> 00:47:48,369
was your favorite talk today oh there

1034
00:47:53,069 --> 00:47:51,400
were so many I really enjoyed yeah I

1035
00:47:54,900 --> 00:47:53,079
really enjoyed cats talk about sort of

1036
00:47:56,430 --> 00:47:54,910
the personal experience with whoo I

1037
00:47:59,250 --> 00:47:56,440
think there's something really powerful

1038
00:48:01,170 --> 00:47:59,260
about that you know it's it's easy as

1039
00:48:03,390 --> 00:48:01,180
someone who's been a skeptic kind of

1040
00:48:04,799 --> 00:48:03,400
forever to sort of dismiss people who

1041
00:48:06,510 --> 00:48:04,809
have these experiences and then you

1042
00:48:08,370 --> 00:48:06,520
realize that actually you know

1043
00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:08,380
everyone's just people and that you you

1044
00:48:12,510 --> 00:48:09,910
have to bear that in mind when you talk

1045
00:48:15,450 --> 00:48:12,520
to them I really like the biological

1046
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:15,460
control talk as well that Michelle did

1047
00:48:19,410 --> 00:48:16,720
of course I think you'd have heard her

1048
00:48:21,029 --> 00:48:19,420
on the skeptic zone before as I do

1049
00:48:22,260 --> 00:48:21,039
virology so it's sort of a similar ish

1050
00:48:25,319 --> 00:48:22,270
field for me and that was really

1051
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:25,329
fascinating and one can never turn down

1052
00:48:30,779 --> 00:48:27,490
an opportunity to say the word carp

1053
00:48:33,930 --> 00:48:30,789
herpes so that was a highlight for me as

1054
00:48:36,569 --> 00:48:33,940
well and what about you David what was

1055
00:48:40,140 --> 00:48:36,579
your favorite talk today um chronic duga

1056
00:48:42,990 --> 00:48:40,150
definitely just use like chronic dude

1057
00:48:44,819 --> 00:48:43,000
yeah well executive wasn't it obviously

1058
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:44,829
there you go that's why intelligence

1059
00:48:48,329 --> 00:48:46,720
gone down the drain but ya know it's the

1060
00:48:53,220 --> 00:48:48,339
first time I've heard it explained like

1061
00:48:56,490 --> 00:48:53,230
that and I really enjoyed it yeah we had

1062
00:48:58,859 --> 00:48:56,500
great talks today and I would encourage

1063
00:49:00,960 --> 00:48:58,869
everybody if you ever have the

1064
00:49:03,450 --> 00:49:00,970
opportunity to get along to a skeptic

1065
00:49:05,450 --> 00:49:03,460
camp to come and meet some like-minded

1066
00:49:10,950 --> 00:49:05,460
people maybe even do a presentation

1067
00:49:12,450 --> 00:49:10,960
yourself hi I'm my name is Curtis and I

1068
00:49:13,980 --> 00:49:12,460
am here just talking about my

1069
00:49:16,890 --> 00:49:13,990
experiences working in an organic

1070
00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:16,900
supermarket and cafe and the people I

1071
00:49:22,349 --> 00:49:19,359
run into and deal with on a daily basis

1072
00:49:26,250 --> 00:49:22,359
and this I believe is your first skeptic

1073
00:49:28,349 --> 00:49:26,260
camp yes yes it is um I know Cassandra

1074
00:49:31,319 --> 00:49:28,359
and so I thought I'd come down and see

1075
00:49:33,809 --> 00:49:31,329
her and see what this is all about okay

1076
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:33,819
and you just did a you were put on the

1077
00:49:37,980 --> 00:49:36,160
spot by cassandra and did a bit of a

1078
00:49:40,140 --> 00:49:37,990
talk for us which was very interesting

1079
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:40,150
so tell us about some of the products

1080
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:43,450
that you sell at work and so we look

1081
00:49:47,820 --> 00:49:45,610
look our store is fully organic so are

1082
00:49:50,820 --> 00:49:47,830
some of the more weird a staff we stock

1083
00:49:53,850 --> 00:49:50,830
is our they're Cleopatra's bath milk and

1084
00:49:57,060 --> 00:49:53,860
face mud cream which is um not full

1085
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:57,070
human consumption but a lot of people

1086
00:50:01,730 --> 00:49:59,920
disregard that but by law you're not

1087
00:50:05,370 --> 00:50:01,740
allowed to sell it for human consumption

1088
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:05,380
we also sell a lot of hemp products like

1089
00:50:10,770 --> 00:50:08,770
hemp protein hemp seeds hemp oil that's

1090
00:50:13,860 --> 00:50:10,780
also sold under the umbrella of not for

1091
00:50:17,610 --> 00:50:13,870
human consumption but people do consume

1092
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:17,620
it we sell a lot of like turmeric powder

1093
00:50:24,450 --> 00:50:20,890
xand like colon cleanses more like arm

1094
00:50:27,450 --> 00:50:24,460
like charcoal and diastasis earth and

1095
00:50:30,450 --> 00:50:27,460
stuff that's used to help your gut

1096
00:50:33,090 --> 00:50:30,460
health and I clean you out and yeah we

1097
00:50:36,210 --> 00:50:33,100
just stuck a lot of stuff that Sam bit

1098
00:50:37,620 --> 00:50:36,220
obscure a lot of vitamins and other

1099
00:50:40,770 --> 00:50:37,630
things that you probably wouldn't find

1100
00:50:44,580 --> 00:50:40,780
at your normal health food store or just

1101
00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:44,590
supermarket and when customers come in

1102
00:50:49,650 --> 00:50:47,110
and ask for a particular product where

1103
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:49,660
do you think they have got the idea that

1104
00:50:57,950 --> 00:50:54,210
a particular product like for example I

1105
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:57,960
don't know buying the buying the

1106
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:00,160
Cleopatra's bath milk for ingestion

1107
00:51:05,250 --> 00:51:03,490
where are they getting advice or the

1108
00:51:08,430 --> 00:51:05,260
idea that this is going to be good for

1109
00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:08,440
them I'm so there's um a few different

1110
00:51:13,530 --> 00:51:11,110
so it's usually news they've like

1111
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:13,540
researched online or they've been told

1112
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:15,280
by a naturopath or homeopath that it's

1113
00:51:21,330 --> 00:51:17,850
better for them for their gut health or

1114
00:51:23,010 --> 00:51:21,340
even we have people from like older

1115
00:51:24,630 --> 00:51:23,020
generation people they're raised on

1116
00:51:26,730 --> 00:51:24,640
dairy farms that think is just like the

1117
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:26,740
best thing ever but they're obviously

1118
00:51:31,860 --> 00:51:29,890
used to it and so yeah they just I think

1119
00:51:33,900 --> 00:51:31,870
they read up on the health benefits

1120
00:51:36,090 --> 00:51:33,910
without looking at anything else and I

1121
00:51:37,830 --> 00:51:36,100
get told by people that are like natural

1122
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:37,840
pass at her house with have quite

1123
00:51:43,140 --> 00:51:40,450
invested interest in telling people

1124
00:51:45,870 --> 00:51:43,150
about the most obscure health benefits

1125
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:45,880
of staff so it's just they come in just

1126
00:51:51,210 --> 00:51:49,090
a bit blind and we can't we don't really

1127
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:51,220
talk them out of buying things it's just

1128
00:51:56,250 --> 00:51:54,010
like you listen to what they want and

1129
00:51:57,240 --> 00:51:56,260
you help them find it and that's that we

1130
00:51:59,310 --> 00:51:57,250
try

1131
00:52:02,060 --> 00:51:59,320
I some if they ask the help we give them

1132
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:02,070
help but we find generally just don't

1133
00:52:07,290 --> 00:52:05,410
take it upon ourselves to like tell them

1134
00:52:09,330 --> 00:52:07,300
otherwise because it's often a bit hard

1135
00:52:11,580 --> 00:52:09,340
reasoning with people and if they come

1136
00:52:14,550 --> 00:52:11,590
in and like we want to respect their

1137
00:52:16,740 --> 00:52:14,560
wishes as well and everyone's allowed to

1138
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:16,750
have an opinion to their health and we

1139
00:52:21,870 --> 00:52:19,390
sort of respect that but um does it mean

1140
00:52:23,370 --> 00:52:21,880
we always agree so you were saying that

1141
00:52:25,290 --> 00:52:23,380
some people actually come in with a list

1142
00:52:29,070 --> 00:52:25,300
of products that they're naturopath has

1143
00:52:31,530 --> 00:52:29,080
given them to to buy this long list of

1144
00:52:33,060 --> 00:52:31,540
products and I guess if they've already

1145
00:52:34,620 --> 00:52:33,070
made their mind up and that's what their

1146
00:52:36,330 --> 00:52:34,630
particular health professional is

1147
00:52:38,370 --> 00:52:36,340
telling them to do there's not much you

1148
00:52:41,100 --> 00:52:38,380
you could do to talk them out of it even

1149
00:52:42,510 --> 00:52:41,110
if that was your job yeah exactly they

1150
00:52:44,550 --> 00:52:42,520
come in with stuff that like I can't

1151
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:44,560
even pronounce and I don't know can't

1152
00:52:48,350 --> 00:52:46,210
really help them but we help them the

1153
00:52:51,780 --> 00:52:48,360
best we can and I think it's just we

1154
00:52:53,730 --> 00:52:51,790
kind of we kind of just facilitate the

1155
00:52:57,330 --> 00:52:53,740
from the natural path to being able to

1156
00:52:59,760 --> 00:52:57,340
consume those products and I um yeah and

1157
00:53:02,040 --> 00:52:59,770
so we just let them do their thing and

1158
00:53:04,620 --> 00:53:02,050
just trying to like set back unless they

1159
00:53:06,900 --> 00:53:04,630
ask the help and then we do have good

1160
00:53:08,660 --> 00:53:06,910
staff which a dietary traditionally give

1161
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:08,670
them a little bit of help but um but

1162
00:53:13,740 --> 00:53:10,690
generally we just let them go without

1163
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:13,750
and flow just to save from any bad

1164
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:16,810
conflict or anything like that yeah and

1165
00:53:25,980 --> 00:53:22,090
have you noticed a shift or in trends I

1166
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:25,990
think you mentioned the year of the what

1167
00:53:29,220 --> 00:53:27,490
was it you said that it was a year of

1168
00:53:31,290 --> 00:53:29,230
this year it was the year of the gut

1169
00:53:33,470 --> 00:53:31,300
it's the gut health yeah everyone's

1170
00:53:36,270 --> 00:53:33,480
going towards probiotics kombucha and

1171
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:36,280
things that are going to promote good

1172
00:53:41,130 --> 00:53:39,040
gut health and what have been some of

1173
00:53:43,620 --> 00:53:41,140
the other trends that you've been aware

1174
00:53:45,810 --> 00:53:43,630
of um well we went to a phase of selling

1175
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:45,820
a lot of quinoa and kale like a lot of

1176
00:53:51,300 --> 00:53:48,850
people have got on that bandwagon we

1177
00:53:53,340 --> 00:53:51,310
also like just depends on the seasons

1178
00:53:57,660 --> 00:53:53,350
like vitamin C goes off the shelves in

1179
00:53:59,100 --> 00:53:57,670
winter and kefir yogurt is very big I

1180
00:54:02,340 --> 00:53:59,110
think that's a probiotic as well so

1181
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:02,350
that's selling quite well yeah we have

1182
00:54:06,990 --> 00:54:04,330
no coconut kefir we have different types

1183
00:54:08,820 --> 00:54:07,000
and I'm sauerkraut we've sold a lot of

1184
00:54:10,740 --> 00:54:08,830
BF lamented a lot of fermented foods

1185
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:10,750
that's really getting big

1186
00:54:16,350 --> 00:54:13,510
on yeah but it just all depends what the

1187
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:16,360
new being shown like when Pete Evans was

1188
00:54:20,550 --> 00:54:17,770
talking about bone broth we had a lot of

1189
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:20,560
people asking for that and we have a lot

1190
00:54:24,810 --> 00:54:22,450
of people are asking for gelatin at the

1191
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:24,820
moment as well like I like organic

1192
00:54:27,870 --> 00:54:26,530
gelatin and they want to know like the

1193
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:27,880
sprouting number and ever thought that

1194
00:54:34,050 --> 00:54:30,160
it's a bit so I don't sure what that's

1195
00:54:35,940 --> 00:54:34,060
to do with but it yeah it's changing it

1196
00:54:37,620 --> 00:54:35,950
always changes it's come from somewhere

1197
00:54:39,210 --> 00:54:37,630
obviously they'll have to look up that

1198
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:39,220
gelatin thing I hadn't heard of that

1199
00:54:45,330 --> 00:54:41,890
well thank you curtis it's been very

1200
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,340
enlightening and we definitely hope to

1201
00:54:49,530 --> 00:54:47,440
see you at more skeptics events in the

1202
00:54:51,540 --> 00:54:49,540
future definitely i'll put dentally talk

1203
00:54:53,940 --> 00:54:51,550
to Cass and you and just yeah see if I

1204
00:55:12,930 --> 00:54:53,950
can come to some more definitely thank

1205
00:55:15,540 --> 00:55:12,940
you hi this is Cassandra president of

1206
00:55:17,790 --> 00:55:15,550
the Brisbane skeptics society in sunny

1207
00:55:20,420 --> 00:55:17,800
Queensland which well by Sydney

1208
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:20,430
standards is the north side of Australia

1209
00:55:26,790 --> 00:55:23,770
I'd like to invite you to join us at one

1210
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:26,800
of our many events not only do we have

1211
00:55:31,980 --> 00:55:29,290
weekly social gatherings all over

1212
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:31,990
Brisbane and monthly lectures we get

1213
00:55:36,930 --> 00:55:34,330
along so well that once or twice a year

1214
00:55:40,860 --> 00:55:36,940
we escape our city confines in Brisbane

1215
00:55:42,890 --> 00:55:40,870
and go travelling together we're always

1216
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:42,900
on the lookout for new ideas new

1217
00:55:51,290 --> 00:55:46,570
perspectives and definitely new speakers

1218
00:55:54,570 --> 00:55:51,300
want to find out more please visit us at

1219
00:55:57,390 --> 00:55:54,580
wwwbootysha predicts org or search for

1220
00:56:17,490 --> 00:55:57,400
Brisbane skeptics society on Facebook or

1221
00:56:22,690 --> 00:56:20,110
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1222
00:56:24,820 --> 00:56:22,700
zone our next week's episode we can have

1223
00:56:27,940 --> 00:56:24,830
more from Heidi Robinson interviewing

1224
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:27,950
people at Brisbane skepta camp and some

1225
00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:30,850
are more highlights and interviews from

1226
00:56:34,750 --> 00:56:33,110
super-science saturday at the Australian

1227
00:56:36,250 --> 00:56:34,760
Museum where Maynard and I were

1228
00:56:39,070 --> 00:56:36,260
performing the mystery investigators

1229
00:56:40,660 --> 00:56:39,080
show and that's a great show that's

1230
00:56:42,130 --> 00:56:40,670
that's a lot of fun we really enjoy it

1231
00:56:44,980 --> 00:56:42,140
there's a website mystery investigators

1232
00:56:47,380 --> 00:56:44,990
calm you might want to check that up the

1233
00:56:49,180 --> 00:56:47,390
show visits any interested groups but

1234
00:56:51,940 --> 00:56:49,190
especially schools it's really catered

1235
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:51,950
towards school groups and indeed later

1236
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:54,530
on this week main art and I will be back

1237
00:56:59,140 --> 00:56:57,530
at the Museum to perform for a high

1238
00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:59,150
school group to high school groups I

1239
00:57:04,150 --> 00:57:01,520
think and the week after that my good

1240
00:57:05,530 --> 00:57:04,160
friend Ian Bryce is also in the mystery

1241
00:57:07,690 --> 00:57:05,540
investigators will be joining me to

1242
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:07,700
perform a busy time of the year thank

1243
00:57:11,980 --> 00:57:09,040
you to those people signing up with

1244
00:57:15,970 --> 00:57:11,990
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1245
00:57:18,190 --> 00:57:15,980
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1246
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:18,200
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1248
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1256
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1257
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1258
00:57:54,790 --> 00:57:52,520
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1259
00:57:56,860 --> 00:57:54,800
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1260
00:57:58,540 --> 00:57:56,870
chocolate very much but for this week

1261
00:58:04,060 --> 00:57:58,550
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1262
00:58:10,250 --> 00:58:06,500
you've been listening to the skeptics

1263
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:10,260
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1264
00:58:16,610 --> 00:58:13,200
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1273
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1274
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1275
00:59:01,410 --> 00:58:42,330
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1276
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:06,290
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1277
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:17,770
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